David Frawley (a.k.a Vamadeva Shastry) is a Catholic who later converted to Hinduism. He is an author on Hinduism, Yoga and Ayurveda, and the founder-director of the American Institute for
Vedic Studies in Santa Fe, New Mexico, which offers courses on Yoga, Ayurveda, and Hindu astrology. He is also a professor of Vedic Astrology and Ayurveda at the International Vedic Hindu University (IVHU). He is a Vaidya (Ayurvedic doctor), and a Jyotishi (Vedic astrologer). In addition to directing his institute, he conducts major lecture tours in India every year, delivering talks at universities, Hindu conferences, and to the general public.
Spiritual quest first brought Dr. David Frawley, to India. Upanishadic thought caught his imagination. To get a deeper insight into this thought , he learnt Sanskrit and taught himself everything Indian- Yoga, Ayurveda and Hindu scriptures.
As his understanding of Vedic thought grew deeper, David Frawley became Vamadeva Shastry, a true Vedantin in eternal quest for truth.
Vamadeva Shastry is an avid reader and a prolific writer. He has written more than 22 books on various subjects related to Hinduism. He is the founding director of American Institute of Vedic Studies in Santa Fe. In view of recent controversies regarding conversion in India , it is of interest to know what Dr. Shastry, himself a convert, thinks about religious conversion.
The following are excerpts from the interview given to Sri Vidyasagara Sharma, Colorado, USA.
Vidyasagara: Being Christian by birth and a converted Hindu what is your reaction to recent religious controversies in India?
Vamadeva: (Thinking for a moment) I cannot say I know all the details of what has been going on. I have not been to India recently. But I do know that there is a strong Christian bias in the Indian media. Wherever Christian missionaries go , particularly into the tribal regions, conflicts usually follow them. Missionaries do not display an appreciation of the local people and cultures and try to denigrate them. They bring in the idea that only Christians are going to heaven and all others are going to hell and this causes a lot of divisions in communities. It happened in Africa and America. Rivalries among various tribes in Africa intensified because of missionary activities.
When missionaries go with large amount of money into poor communities, they upset the local equilibrium. We need to watch what missionaries are doing and how they are relating to the community. For example when I was in Meghalaya some years ago, there was a little community there was a huge church above the hill. I asked the locals whether there were a lot of Christians in that community. Locals said “No, but the missionaries get lots of money from foreign countries and build big churches everywhere.” It was clear that the locals didn’t like missionary activities in their midst but could do little about it.
Vidyasagara: Recently a few attacks on churches , protest against religious conversion has turned violent in India. Is that justifiable?
Vamadeva: Hinduism is against violence. Yet this does not mean that Hindus cannot protest against another religion when attacked by it. Violence happens due to various reasons in tribal areas. Forceful conversion is at the root of most of this violence and a few Christians have taken responsibility for it. Hindus should not be violent but at the same time, under the guise of non-violence, they should not let someone denigrate them and take them over. Curiously, more black churches have been burnt by white people in United States than the number of churches burnt in India in recent years. But no one highlights that. The western media talks about Hindu-Christian riots but rarely mentions Swami Lakshmananda Saraswati’s murder that inflamed the situation.
The problem is that whenever a controversy turns violent, Hindus become quiet and stop any resistance. Whenever they are accused of violence, they retreat and let others take them over. Because of this passivity, other groups attack Hindus again and again. So accusing Hindus of violence is commonly a way of making them retreat. Whenever Hindus become assertive, Muslims quote Mahatma Gandhi. Otherwise they are not quoting the Mahatma for themselves. Why don’t Muslims and Christians follow Mahatma Gandhi and become non-violent? They quote Gandhi hoping to make Hindus more passive. Hindus don’t have to become violent but they must assert themselves if they want to survive today.
Vidyasagara: Christian missionary activities are not new to India. But after Pope John Paul’s call to missionaries to harvest the souls in Asia, missionary activities in India seem to have increased. There are complaints of increased inflow of foreign money and missionaries. Please comment.
Vamadeva: India is the only big country in the non-Christian world that allows wide scale missionary activities. China does not. The Catholic Church and missionaries cannot even get into China. The Communist countries do not allow them to enter. Although Russia is a Christian country, they don’t even let the Pope visit them as they follow a different type of Christianity. Islamic countries (including Pakistan and Bangladesh) don’t let the missionaries come in. Instead of appreciating India for letting them in, missionaries are coming in and causing trouble, and saying that people are discriminating against them. So why don’t they go to China and see how much they are welcome there? Why don’t they go to Indonesia, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia and try to convert people?
Vidyasagara: But Christians defend conversion as if it is their birthright and say that they are spreading the word of God. They also claim that they are taking God’s love to people. What is your opinion on their stand?
Vamadeva: God’s love is not something that a person owns. Christians claim that God created the universe. Didn’t God create people of different faiths on earth? God loves his entire creation. Why do missionaries have to bring love to people? Are they claiming that Hindus do not have any love unless they bring it in? If you look at western societies, even in the United States, Europe and South America, poverty, disease and drug usage is widespread among Christians. Why are nthey not going there to help their fellow Christians? Why are they trying to convert Hindus by any means possible?
Have the missionaries ever studied Hinduism and Buddhism? Do they know what Hindu and Buddhist teachings are? They should first try to understand Hindu and other Eastern religions; not impose their beliefs and view upon Hindus. To tell Hindus that “we are better than you and we are going to give you something better than what you have” is egoism. Before upsetting other people’s religious beliefs, missionaries must understand and honor others’ religion, philosophy and religious practices.
Vidyasagara: Some Hindus fear that because of increased conversion activities, demographic profile of India is changing. They also say Jihadi terrorism and forced conversion are dual threats to India and Hinduism. Do you agree?
Vamadeva: Many countries in the world see conversion as a threat. Russia, Europe, and America share these concerns. In the United States, there are restrictions on non-biblical religions. To come to pluralistic country like India and claim that “we are the only religion and all other religions are false” is definitely going against the traditions of India. Indian traditions that honor many different paths to reach God naturally get alarmed by these missionary activities. In India there is a dangerous tendency in certain religious groups to demand their own land as their numbers grow. We cannot forget that India was once divided on religious lines. When it comes to terrorism, it is a fact that terrorists are coming from certain religious communities. Whether they represent that religion as a whole is a different issue. But is it not a fact that terrorists are primarily coming from certain communities?
Vidyasagara: So do you think there is some truth in the notion that relentless conversion poses a threat to India’s sovereignty and integrity?
Vamadeva: Sure, there is a threat to India’s culture, its traditions, and its heritage. In terms of national sovereignty, one can argue that the religion of people should not matter. But what we do find is that there is a lot of anti-national feelings present in certain religious groups in India. Pakistan is a result of such feelings. Many people fear that there would be many more mini Pakistans if these anti-national sentiments continue.
I would not say Muslims are the best treated community in India. But the fact is that since partition, the Islamic community in India has grown. Whereas the Hindu communities in Pakistan and Bangladesh have been decimated. They are almost totally gone. This must be bourne in mind that when a country is ruled by Islam, Hindus are reduced and eliminated. Hindus are made to convert or they are thrown out of the country. So it is natural for Hindus to think that terrorism and conversion pose serious threat to India’s integrity and to Hinduism.
Vidyasagara: How Hindus can prevent missionaries’ conversion activities?
Vamadeva: In several ways. First Hindus must understand Christian missionaries, where they come from and what they are doing. Hindus must understand Christian theology and counter it. Missionaries have a theology that theirs is the only true religion, theirs is the only holy book, and heaven is attained only through them. We will have to tell people what a farce such a theology is. It is religious prejudice of the highest order. Truth is like the Sun that shines on all. No one can own it or dispense it in their name.
Lots of money is brought into India from foreign countries for conversion activities. At a government level you have to see where the funding is coming from and put a stop to it. Hindus have to vote in people who support them. They should vote in a government that is sensitive to their needs rather than always supporting Christians and Muslims in the name of minority protection. For example, India is the only community in the world that subsidizes the Hajj. There are even complaints that money collected in Hindu temples under government control is spent for these subsidies. Pakistan and Bangladesh do not subsidize Hajj pilgrims. No Christian country does. Why should India? Would these countries subsidize Hindu pilgrimages?
Now some people claim that the church provides better education and it may be true to an extent. I think Hindus should expect better education from their government schools. No country can raise itself up by depending on the support provided by its minority religions. Hindus should recognize that the oldest Christian country in Asia, Philippines, is also one of the most economically backward countries in the region. Japan became an economic giant not by becoming Christian but by adopting strong economic policies.
Vidyasagara: Do you think there is also a role Hindus settled abroad can play in preventing conversion?
Vamadeva: Of course. The main ploy Christians use for conversion is that “Hinduism is a backward religion. You can make more money by becoming a Christian.” Hindus settled abroad, however, are highly successful. Hindus are the most affluent ethnic community in the United States, the UK and Canada. Christians are relatively poorer and less educated than Hindus in these countries. Hindus settled outside India have shown that religion is not a cause for one’s economic welfare. Successful overseas Indians must help their brethren in India achieve economic and academic success. That can be their biggest contribution in preventing terrorism.
Vidyasagara: There have been accusations in India that Christian missionaries follow all sort of ways to convert people. There are complaints that missionaries offer money, free education for children, free health treatment and jobs as inducement. And they deceive people and threaten where they can. Are you surprised by these allegations? Do you think these are exaggerations?
Vamadeva: No, certainly not. These are well known to have been done in other times and places. In America they killed and tortured native Indians. They killed natives when they would not go to church and cut their hands off when they would not put their hands in prayer. The Hawaiian religion was made illegal until about 30 years ago. What missionaries are claiming is that these methods are no longer used. But I have my doubts.
There are many instances of people saying Christians are offering money, incentives and playing tricks to convert them. Even if you believe that they are not doing these things anymore, are Christians apologizing for having once done them? When the Pope apologized to Native Americans, he did not offer to give their religion and land back or offer respect to their religion.
Vidyasagara: Some people defend conversion and Christian missionaries by stating that the caste system and other weaknesses of Hindu society are the causes of conversion. What is your stand on that?
Vamadeva: If Hindu missionaries went to poor American communities and offered money or other incentives to convert they would certainly get a response. Every country has certain weaknesses. America too has some. It is true that caste system and other weaknesses in India allow conversion to occur. But it does not mean that because a home lacks a good security system, it is alright to rob it. We agree that our house must be better secured, but it is not right to say that the thief is doing u a favour by stealing things away.
Vidyasagara: Secularism is a principle enshrined in the Indian constitution. Many organizations working for Hindu causes are accused of working against this principle. Please comment.
Vamadeva: (Laughing) What do you mean by secularism? It is a western concept that separates legal and political systems from religion. For Hindus truth alone matters and theologies don’t. All are equal in the eyes of law. Then how is it fair to say that others can criticize Hindu society and religion but Hindu leaders cannot criticize them back in return? The Hindu point of view needs to be out there, just as others’. What does secularism mean? Being neutral to about religion or appeasing minorities?
In India you have to represent all religions, not just minority religions. It is ridiculous that the Muslims and Christians can discuss their community interests and make decisions to protect them but Hindus are denied that right and freedom. In India, secularism means you should do something good for all religions. That is not secularism. That’s religious policy.
Because Christians and Muslims converted people by force all over the world, many ancient traditions were destroyed and denigrated. Many of these pre-Christian and pre-Islamic traditions have sacred fires and other similar rituals to the Hindu. Pluralism, religious tolerance and use of images are common across these traditions. Western philosophy, science, politics and medicine came from these pagan traditions. For several hundred years the Catholic Church opposed science because it came from the pagans, Christians produced only their theology. Science grew up in West facing a strong opposition from the Church all along.
Vidyasagara: Yoga and certain Hindu ideas seem to be catching up in America. Do you think it is an opening to Hinduism in the West?
Vamadeva: It is definitely an opening to Sanatana Dharma. People in the West do not understand what Hinduism is. When you explain Sanatana Dharma to people, they happily accept it but when you ask are you a Hindu they say no. They say no because Christian missionaries have misled them that Hinduism is just caste and bundle of backward social practices. There needs to be reconsideration of Hinduism in the West and Hindu society needs to change for that to happen. Hindus need to better communicate Sanatana Dharma.
When Swami Vivekananda visited America, several people got introduction to Hinduism. Many Americans were attracted to Hindu ideas. But Hinduism has not made much progress here in last 100-150 years?
Vamadeva: Hinduism has made a big impact in the West but not through its name. Many aspects of it such as Yoga, Ayurveda, Vedanta, Sanskrit and Jyotisha are becoming popular. Hinduism is a very broad based spiritual system resting on personal spiritual practice. It is not a simple belief system like Christianity. You cannot just describe Hinduism on one page.
Christians say ‘Accept Jesus and you are saved’. Hinduism is much deeper than that. Although people in the West have not taken up Hinduism per se, many are following Hindu gurus. In Hindu tradition yogic practices are very important. Many people all over the world have accepted and adopted these practices and Hindu lifestyle. In that respect Hinduism has spread worldwide. But it is important that people give respect to the religion as well and not just a few aspects of it that they may be personally benefitting from.
Vidyasagara: Western societies seem to be in turmoil, but Western ideas are spreading to all corners of the world. How do you explain this paradox?
Vamadeva: There are political and religious reasons why Western ideas have been exported. An idea spreads through the power of media and power of military. Generally people who control the guns, money, media and energy also control the flow of ideas. People believe what the media say. So the media are important and that is why Hindus must create their own media and try to have their impact upon the world media.
Realizing the ultimate truth is the aim of religion. Truth is the same for Hindus, Muslims and Christians. We should not have to exterminate other religions because we think ours is better. The Western world has not accomplished much in terms of religion. That has not been its focus. India has produced more yogis and sages in a century than Europe has probably ever produced in its entire history.
The whole concept of religion is different in the West. They go to church, accept Jesus and that’s it. The West does not have sadhana based religion. People don’t do mantra, meditation, yoga, and pranayama in western Christianity. What we need today is experiential spirituality at an individual level. That’s what Hinduism, Buddhism and other Eastern traditions offer. Christianity in general is not interested in spiritual sadhana (practice). Christians want people to go through a messenger, a prophet, a book and the church. They want salvation to be constituted by a belief, not through change of consciousness or higher evolution through spiritual practice.
Vidyasagara: Is globalization a threat to Hinduism? Is Hindu society prepared for globalization?
Vamadeva: Globalization is surely becoming a threat to the planet (smiles wryly). Globalization can also be a basis of effective communication. For example a person sitting in a distant corner of the world can study Hinduism just out of curiosity or interest. The danger we have today is of over consumption. We have limited resources and promoting global consumerism is a problem. Globalization can also be a means of expansion for multinational religions. In that sense globalization can be a form of colonialism and corporations and multinational religions imposing their will on others is a scary scenario.
Hindus will have to face the changes brought about by globalization. We have the intelligence to handle it, but we need to study and understand the other. Many Hindus who have never studied Christianity or Islam just say “All religions are the same”. Before making that statement read the Koran and the Bible, not just a few statements but read the entire books. See whether you really agree with these books. Observe what the church says and what it does. Do you agree with their theology? You cannot agree with both of those religions because they are mutually exclusive. Both Islam and Christianity say theirs is the only path so how can you agree with both?
You have to have discrimination (judgement) in life.Are you going to drink the water you find anywhere? An intelligent person makes a distinction between good and bad and all things. When people go to a store they choose only good and fresh vegetables. They just don’t pick them all up. Don’t you choose your job or your life partner carefully? Then when it comes to religion how you can say all religions are the same? How is it possible to believe in the teachings of all religions? In religion you need more discrimination as it deals with life’s higher realities. There is an interesting saying in the Vedas: “All water is one; but all water is not fit to drink”.
Discrimination does not mean that you don’t recognize commonalities. Religion is a man made phenomena just like science. If you accept all scientific theories as true what science is that? You cannot say I accept all politicians, I accept all legal systems and I accept that all people are good. We need pluralism but all religions are not same. Hindus should stop repeating that notion.
Vidyasagara: Many Hindus believe that the Sanatana Dharma can survive no matter what happens in the world. Is not that attitude fatalistic and self damaging?
Vamadeva: In Hindu tradition we have the idea of duty and karma. Every person has a role and if we do not perform our duties , how can the world get better. We can’t just say, “OK, I will just be passive; let things happen”. What is Mahabharata’s message? Pandavas had to fight a war to protect dharma. They did not just end up being passive and going home.
Today, a lot of Indians are just concerned about their own immediate economic welfare. It should change. They must do something for society. They should support Hindu causes. Hindus in the West should help provide better education and healthcare facilities in India instead of donating money to Harvard and Red Cross.
Most American universities have a divinity department to teach religion, meaning Christianity. Indian universities don’t have divinity departments to teach Hinduism. In India the public schools are suppose to be secular. Minority schools can teach religion but majority schools cannot (laughs). You have to have your own schools to teach Vedas and Upanishads. Teaching rituals is useful but focus must be on providing a superior education in Vedanta based Hinduism. These Hindu schools must support and facilitate research and higher education in Hinduism.
Source- book: “CONVERSION: An Assault on Truth”(chapter by Vidyasagara Sharma)
Authors of the book include S L Bhyrappa, M Chidananda Murthy, David Frawley, R Ganesh, N S Rajaram, Swami Dayanand Saraswati.
Vedic Studies in Santa Fe, New Mexico, which offers courses on Yoga, Ayurveda, and Hindu astrology. He is also a professor of Vedic Astrology and Ayurveda at the International Vedic Hindu University (IVHU). He is a Vaidya (Ayurvedic doctor), and a Jyotishi (Vedic astrologer). In addition to directing his institute, he conducts major lecture tours in India every year, delivering talks at universities, Hindu conferences, and to the general public.
Spiritual quest first brought Dr. David Frawley, to India. Upanishadic thought caught his imagination. To get a deeper insight into this thought , he learnt Sanskrit and taught himself everything Indian- Yoga, Ayurveda and Hindu scriptures.
As his understanding of Vedic thought grew deeper, David Frawley became Vamadeva Shastry, a true Vedantin in eternal quest for truth.
Vamadeva Shastry is an avid reader and a prolific writer. He has written more than 22 books on various subjects related to Hinduism. He is the founding director of American Institute of Vedic Studies in Santa Fe. In view of recent controversies regarding conversion in India , it is of interest to know what Dr. Shastry, himself a convert, thinks about religious conversion.The following are excerpts from the interview given to Sri Vidyasagara Sharma, Colorado, USA.
Vidyasagara: Being Christian by birth and a converted Hindu what is your reaction to recent religious controversies in India?
Vamadeva: (Thinking for a moment) I cannot say I know all the details of what has been going on. I have not been to India recently. But I do know that there is a strong Christian bias in the Indian media. Wherever Christian missionaries go , particularly into the tribal regions, conflicts usually follow them. Missionaries do not display an appreciation of the local people and cultures and try to denigrate them. They bring in the idea that only Christians are going to heaven and all others are going to hell and this causes a lot of divisions in communities. It happened in Africa and America. Rivalries among various tribes in Africa intensified because of missionary activities.
When missionaries go with large amount of money into poor communities, they upset the local equilibrium. We need to watch what missionaries are doing and how they are relating to the community. For example when I was in Meghalaya some years ago, there was a little community there was a huge church above the hill. I asked the locals whether there were a lot of Christians in that community. Locals said “No, but the missionaries get lots of money from foreign countries and build big churches everywhere.” It was clear that the locals didn’t like missionary activities in their midst but could do little about it.
Vidyasagara: Recently a few attacks on churches , protest against religious conversion has turned violent in India. Is that justifiable?
Vamadeva: Hinduism is against violence. Yet this does not mean that Hindus cannot protest against another religion when attacked by it. Violence happens due to various reasons in tribal areas. Forceful conversion is at the root of most of this violence and a few Christians have taken responsibility for it. Hindus should not be violent but at the same time, under the guise of non-violence, they should not let someone denigrate them and take them over. Curiously, more black churches have been burnt by white people in United States than the number of churches burnt in India in recent years. But no one highlights that. The western media talks about Hindu-Christian riots but rarely mentions Swami Lakshmananda Saraswati’s murder that inflamed the situation.
The problem is that whenever a controversy turns violent, Hindus become quiet and stop any resistance. Whenever they are accused of violence, they retreat and let others take them over. Because of this passivity, other groups attack Hindus again and again. So accusing Hindus of violence is commonly a way of making them retreat. Whenever Hindus become assertive, Muslims quote Mahatma Gandhi. Otherwise they are not quoting the Mahatma for themselves. Why don’t Muslims and Christians follow Mahatma Gandhi and become non-violent? They quote Gandhi hoping to make Hindus more passive. Hindus don’t have to become violent but they must assert themselves if they want to survive today.Vidyasagara: Christian missionary activities are not new to India. But after Pope John Paul’s call to missionaries to harvest the souls in Asia, missionary activities in India seem to have increased. There are complaints of increased inflow of foreign money and missionaries. Please comment.
Vamadeva: India is the only big country in the non-Christian world that allows wide scale missionary activities. China does not. The Catholic Church and missionaries cannot even get into China. The Communist countries do not allow them to enter. Although Russia is a Christian country, they don’t even let the Pope visit them as they follow a different type of Christianity. Islamic countries (including Pakistan and Bangladesh) don’t let the missionaries come in. Instead of appreciating India for letting them in, missionaries are coming in and causing trouble, and saying that people are discriminating against them. So why don’t they go to China and see how much they are welcome there? Why don’t they go to Indonesia, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia and try to convert people?
Vidyasagara: But Christians defend conversion as if it is their birthright and say that they are spreading the word of God. They also claim that they are taking God’s love to people. What is your opinion on their stand?
Vamadeva: God’s love is not something that a person owns. Christians claim that God created the universe. Didn’t God create people of different faiths on earth? God loves his entire creation. Why do missionaries have to bring love to people? Are they claiming that Hindus do not have any love unless they bring it in? If you look at western societies, even in the United States, Europe and South America, poverty, disease and drug usage is widespread among Christians. Why are nthey not going there to help their fellow Christians? Why are they trying to convert Hindus by any means possible?
Have the missionaries ever studied Hinduism and Buddhism? Do they know what Hindu and Buddhist teachings are? They should first try to understand Hindu and other Eastern religions; not impose their beliefs and view upon Hindus. To tell Hindus that “we are better than you and we are going to give you something better than what you have” is egoism. Before upsetting other people’s religious beliefs, missionaries must understand and honor others’ religion, philosophy and religious practices.
Vidyasagara: Some Hindus fear that because of increased conversion activities, demographic profile of India is changing. They also say Jihadi terrorism and forced conversion are dual threats to India and Hinduism. Do you agree?
Vamadeva: Many countries in the world see conversion as a threat. Russia, Europe, and America share these concerns. In the United States, there are restrictions on non-biblical religions. To come to pluralistic country like India and claim that “we are the only religion and all other religions are false” is definitely going against the traditions of India. Indian traditions that honor many different paths to reach God naturally get alarmed by these missionary activities. In India there is a dangerous tendency in certain religious groups to demand their own land as their numbers grow. We cannot forget that India was once divided on religious lines. When it comes to terrorism, it is a fact that terrorists are coming from certain religious communities. Whether they represent that religion as a whole is a different issue. But is it not a fact that terrorists are primarily coming from certain communities?
Vidyasagara: So do you think there is some truth in the notion that relentless conversion poses a threat to India’s sovereignty and integrity?
Vamadeva: Sure, there is a threat to India’s culture, its traditions, and its heritage. In terms of national sovereignty, one can argue that the religion of people should not matter. But what we do find is that there is a lot of anti-national feelings present in certain religious groups in India. Pakistan is a result of such feelings. Many people fear that there would be many more mini Pakistans if these anti-national sentiments continue.
I would not say Muslims are the best treated community in India. But the fact is that since partition, the Islamic community in India has grown. Whereas the Hindu communities in Pakistan and Bangladesh have been decimated. They are almost totally gone. This must be bourne in mind that when a country is ruled by Islam, Hindus are reduced and eliminated. Hindus are made to convert or they are thrown out of the country. So it is natural for Hindus to think that terrorism and conversion pose serious threat to India’s integrity and to Hinduism.Vidyasagara: How Hindus can prevent missionaries’ conversion activities?
Vamadeva: In several ways. First Hindus must understand Christian missionaries, where they come from and what they are doing. Hindus must understand Christian theology and counter it. Missionaries have a theology that theirs is the only true religion, theirs is the only holy book, and heaven is attained only through them. We will have to tell people what a farce such a theology is. It is religious prejudice of the highest order. Truth is like the Sun that shines on all. No one can own it or dispense it in their name.
Lots of money is brought into India from foreign countries for conversion activities. At a government level you have to see where the funding is coming from and put a stop to it. Hindus have to vote in people who support them. They should vote in a government that is sensitive to their needs rather than always supporting Christians and Muslims in the name of minority protection. For example, India is the only community in the world that subsidizes the Hajj. There are even complaints that money collected in Hindu temples under government control is spent for these subsidies. Pakistan and Bangladesh do not subsidize Hajj pilgrims. No Christian country does. Why should India? Would these countries subsidize Hindu pilgrimages?
Now some people claim that the church provides better education and it may be true to an extent. I think Hindus should expect better education from their government schools. No country can raise itself up by depending on the support provided by its minority religions. Hindus should recognize that the oldest Christian country in Asia, Philippines, is also one of the most economically backward countries in the region. Japan became an economic giant not by becoming Christian but by adopting strong economic policies.
Vidyasagara: Do you think there is also a role Hindus settled abroad can play in preventing conversion?
Vamadeva: Of course. The main ploy Christians use for conversion is that “Hinduism is a backward religion. You can make more money by becoming a Christian.” Hindus settled abroad, however, are highly successful. Hindus are the most affluent ethnic community in the United States, the UK and Canada. Christians are relatively poorer and less educated than Hindus in these countries. Hindus settled outside India have shown that religion is not a cause for one’s economic welfare. Successful overseas Indians must help their brethren in India achieve economic and academic success. That can be their biggest contribution in preventing terrorism.
Vidyasagara: There have been accusations in India that Christian missionaries follow all sort of ways to convert people. There are complaints that missionaries offer money, free education for children, free health treatment and jobs as inducement. And they deceive people and threaten where they can. Are you surprised by these allegations? Do you think these are exaggerations?
Vamadeva: No, certainly not. These are well known to have been done in other times and places. In America they killed and tortured native Indians. They killed natives when they would not go to church and cut their hands off when they would not put their hands in prayer. The Hawaiian religion was made illegal until about 30 years ago. What missionaries are claiming is that these methods are no longer used. But I have my doubts.
There are many instances of people saying Christians are offering money, incentives and playing tricks to convert them. Even if you believe that they are not doing these things anymore, are Christians apologizing for having once done them? When the Pope apologized to Native Americans, he did not offer to give their religion and land back or offer respect to their religion.
Vidyasagara: Some people defend conversion and Christian missionaries by stating that the caste system and other weaknesses of Hindu society are the causes of conversion. What is your stand on that?
Vamadeva: If Hindu missionaries went to poor American communities and offered money or other incentives to convert they would certainly get a response. Every country has certain weaknesses. America too has some. It is true that caste system and other weaknesses in India allow conversion to occur. But it does not mean that because a home lacks a good security system, it is alright to rob it. We agree that our house must be better secured, but it is not right to say that the thief is doing u a favour by stealing things away.
Vidyasagara: Secularism is a principle enshrined in the Indian constitution. Many organizations working for Hindu causes are accused of working against this principle. Please comment.
Vamadeva: (Laughing) What do you mean by secularism? It is a western concept that separates legal and political systems from religion. For Hindus truth alone matters and theologies don’t. All are equal in the eyes of law. Then how is it fair to say that others can criticize Hindu society and religion but Hindu leaders cannot criticize them back in return? The Hindu point of view needs to be out there, just as others’. What does secularism mean? Being neutral to about religion or appeasing minorities?In India you have to represent all religions, not just minority religions. It is ridiculous that the Muslims and Christians can discuss their community interests and make decisions to protect them but Hindus are denied that right and freedom. In India, secularism means you should do something good for all religions. That is not secularism. That’s religious policy.
Because Christians and Muslims converted people by force all over the world, many ancient traditions were destroyed and denigrated. Many of these pre-Christian and pre-Islamic traditions have sacred fires and other similar rituals to the Hindu. Pluralism, religious tolerance and use of images are common across these traditions. Western philosophy, science, politics and medicine came from these pagan traditions. For several hundred years the Catholic Church opposed science because it came from the pagans, Christians produced only their theology. Science grew up in West facing a strong opposition from the Church all along.
Vidyasagara: Yoga and certain Hindu ideas seem to be catching up in America. Do you think it is an opening to Hinduism in the West?
Vamadeva: It is definitely an opening to Sanatana Dharma. People in the West do not understand what Hinduism is. When you explain Sanatana Dharma to people, they happily accept it but when you ask are you a Hindu they say no. They say no because Christian missionaries have misled them that Hinduism is just caste and bundle of backward social practices. There needs to be reconsideration of Hinduism in the West and Hindu society needs to change for that to happen. Hindus need to better communicate Sanatana Dharma.
When Swami Vivekananda visited America, several people got introduction to Hinduism. Many Americans were attracted to Hindu ideas. But Hinduism has not made much progress here in last 100-150 years?
Vamadeva: Hinduism has made a big impact in the West but not through its name. Many aspects of it such as Yoga, Ayurveda, Vedanta, Sanskrit and Jyotisha are becoming popular. Hinduism is a very broad based spiritual system resting on personal spiritual practice. It is not a simple belief system like Christianity. You cannot just describe Hinduism on one page.
Christians say ‘Accept Jesus and you are saved’. Hinduism is much deeper than that. Although people in the West have not taken up Hinduism per se, many are following Hindu gurus. In Hindu tradition yogic practices are very important. Many people all over the world have accepted and adopted these practices and Hindu lifestyle. In that respect Hinduism has spread worldwide. But it is important that people give respect to the religion as well and not just a few aspects of it that they may be personally benefitting from.Vidyasagara: Western societies seem to be in turmoil, but Western ideas are spreading to all corners of the world. How do you explain this paradox?
Vamadeva: There are political and religious reasons why Western ideas have been exported. An idea spreads through the power of media and power of military. Generally people who control the guns, money, media and energy also control the flow of ideas. People believe what the media say. So the media are important and that is why Hindus must create their own media and try to have their impact upon the world media.
Realizing the ultimate truth is the aim of religion. Truth is the same for Hindus, Muslims and Christians. We should not have to exterminate other religions because we think ours is better. The Western world has not accomplished much in terms of religion. That has not been its focus. India has produced more yogis and sages in a century than Europe has probably ever produced in its entire history.
The whole concept of religion is different in the West. They go to church, accept Jesus and that’s it. The West does not have sadhana based religion. People don’t do mantra, meditation, yoga, and pranayama in western Christianity. What we need today is experiential spirituality at an individual level. That’s what Hinduism, Buddhism and other Eastern traditions offer. Christianity in general is not interested in spiritual sadhana (practice). Christians want people to go through a messenger, a prophet, a book and the church. They want salvation to be constituted by a belief, not through change of consciousness or higher evolution through spiritual practice.
Vidyasagara: Is globalization a threat to Hinduism? Is Hindu society prepared for globalization?
Vamadeva: Globalization is surely becoming a threat to the planet (smiles wryly). Globalization can also be a basis of effective communication. For example a person sitting in a distant corner of the world can study Hinduism just out of curiosity or interest. The danger we have today is of over consumption. We have limited resources and promoting global consumerism is a problem. Globalization can also be a means of expansion for multinational religions. In that sense globalization can be a form of colonialism and corporations and multinational religions imposing their will on others is a scary scenario.
Hindus will have to face the changes brought about by globalization. We have the intelligence to handle it, but we need to study and understand the other. Many Hindus who have never studied Christianity or Islam just say “All religions are the same”. Before making that statement read the Koran and the Bible, not just a few statements but read the entire books. See whether you really agree with these books. Observe what the church says and what it does. Do you agree with their theology? You cannot agree with both of those religions because they are mutually exclusive. Both Islam and Christianity say theirs is the only path so how can you agree with both?You have to have discrimination (judgement) in life.Are you going to drink the water you find anywhere? An intelligent person makes a distinction between good and bad and all things. When people go to a store they choose only good and fresh vegetables. They just don’t pick them all up. Don’t you choose your job or your life partner carefully? Then when it comes to religion how you can say all religions are the same? How is it possible to believe in the teachings of all religions? In religion you need more discrimination as it deals with life’s higher realities. There is an interesting saying in the Vedas: “All water is one; but all water is not fit to drink”.
Discrimination does not mean that you don’t recognize commonalities. Religion is a man made phenomena just like science. If you accept all scientific theories as true what science is that? You cannot say I accept all politicians, I accept all legal systems and I accept that all people are good. We need pluralism but all religions are not same. Hindus should stop repeating that notion.
Vidyasagara: Many Hindus believe that the Sanatana Dharma can survive no matter what happens in the world. Is not that attitude fatalistic and self damaging?
Vamadeva: In Hindu tradition we have the idea of duty and karma. Every person has a role and if we do not perform our duties , how can the world get better. We can’t just say, “OK, I will just be passive; let things happen”. What is Mahabharata’s message? Pandavas had to fight a war to protect dharma. They did not just end up being passive and going home.
Today, a lot of Indians are just concerned about their own immediate economic welfare. It should change. They must do something for society. They should support Hindu causes. Hindus in the West should help provide better education and healthcare facilities in India instead of donating money to Harvard and Red Cross.
Most American universities have a divinity department to teach religion, meaning Christianity. Indian universities don’t have divinity departments to teach Hinduism. In India the public schools are suppose to be secular. Minority schools can teach religion but majority schools cannot (laughs). You have to have your own schools to teach Vedas and Upanishads. Teaching rituals is useful but focus must be on providing a superior education in Vedanta based Hinduism. These Hindu schools must support and facilitate research and higher education in Hinduism.
Source- book: “CONVERSION: An Assault on Truth”(chapter by Vidyasagara Sharma)
Authors of the book include S L Bhyrappa, M Chidananda Murthy, David Frawley, R Ganesh, N S Rajaram, Swami Dayanand Saraswati.
